@Plant_proof Kevin Hall Farooqi Lab stephen o'rahilly (its pronounced O-RA-hill-EEE) Leanne M. Redman, PhD John Speakman Deirdre Tobias, ScD American Journal of Clinical Nutrition I suspect this is why @kevin_Phd et al take this out of context and add ellipses (...). A statement of propositions is made to appear foolish.

Here's the original context: a paragraph that begins 'This alternative hypothesis of obesity constitutes three distinct propositions.'

gary taubes Kevin Hall Farooqi Lab stephen o'rahilly (its pronounced O-RA-hill-EEE) Leanne M. Redman, PhD John Speakman Deirdre Tobias, ScD American Journal of Clinical Nutrition @kevin_phd Thanks for clarifying that

@Plant_proof Kevin Hall Farooqi Lab stephen o'rahilly (its pronounced O-RA-hill-EEE) Leanne M. Redman, PhD John Speakman Deirdre Tobias, ScD American Journal of Clinical Nutrition @kevin_phd My pleasure. Criticism is vitally important to hone our thinking about anything (or reject it as necessary).

What I don't understand is the subtle dishonesty involved here to make an otherwise thoughtful re-examination of a vitally important subject look naive and foolish.

gary taubes @Plant_proof Kevin Hall Farooqi Lab stephen o'rahilly (its pronounced O-RA-hill-EEE) Leanne M. Redman, PhD John Speakman Deirdre Tobias, ScD American Journal of Clinical Nutrition @kevin_phd Tiresome to see these breathless ad hominem attacks again.

You've spent your career trying to publicly delegitimize researchers who disagree with you, and it's getting old. 👇

Do I have to point out that this isn't how rational people debate?

@whsource @Plant_proof Kevin Hall Farooqi Lab stephen o'rahilly (its pronounced O-RA-hill-EEE) Leanne M. Redman, PhD John Speakman Deirdre Tobias, ScD American Journal of Clinical Nutrition @kevin_phd I can imagine it gets tiring to you, yes.

Considering the responses to the Joe Rogan fiasco, I'm not sure you're any more of an expert on 'how rational people debate' than I am.

gary taubes @Plant_proof Kevin Hall Farooqi Lab stephen o'rahilly (its pronounced O-RA-hill-EEE) Leanne M. Redman, PhD John Speakman Deirdre Tobias, ScD American Journal of Clinical Nutrition @kevin_phd Joe Rogan Your behavior is tiring to people who are trying to understand obesity rather than defend ego and tribal beliefs.

You (not me) are calling people incompetent and dishonest right now, and have done so throughout your career.

And you still can't see the problem.

@whsource gary taubes @Plant_proof Kevin Hall Farooqi Lab stephen o'rahilly (its pronounced O-RA-hill-EEE) Leanne M. Redman, PhD John Speakman Deirdre Tobias, ScD American Journal of Clinical Nutrition @kevin_phd Joe Rogan Major players like Gary Taubes and Dr. Knobbe are innovators at the top of their respective games. Only a handful in their league, none in this minidrama.

The influence of Big Food is intentional malpractice, and a disgrace to all human responsibility.

Our Human Franchise @whsource gary taubes Kevin Hall Farooqi Lab stephen o'rahilly (its pronounced O-RA-hill-EEE) Leanne M. Redman, PhD John Speakman Deirdre Tobias, ScD American Journal of Clinical Nutrition @kevin_phd Joe Rogan What’s wrong with studies that have tested their proposed model?

@Plant_proof @whsource gary taubes Kevin Hall Farooqi Lab stephen o'rahilly (its pronounced O-RA-hill-EEE) Leanne M. Redman, PhD John Speakman Deirdre Tobias, ScD American Journal of Clinical Nutrition @kevin_phd Joe Rogan The phrase 'more research is needed' has been compromised, now seen as the last refuge of _________. See Covid and 25(OH)D, and lament the malnutrition in care homes from factory food.

Our Human Franchise @Plant_proof @whsource Kevin Hall Farooqi Lab stephen o'rahilly (its pronounced O-RA-hill-EEE) Leanne M. Redman, PhD John Speakman Deirdre Tobias, ScD American Journal of Clinical Nutrition @kevin_phd Joe Rogan That's been a problem in the field for decades. Ask a scientist about the state of the data and he/she will usually say more research is needed, because it is.

An equal problem is the implication it's not, as with the epidemiologists assuming associations imply causality.

gary taubes Our Human Franchise @Plant_proof @whsource Kevin Hall Farooqi Lab stephen o'rahilly (its pronounced O-RA-hill-EEE) Leanne M. Redman, PhD John Speakman Deirdre Tobias, ScD American Journal of Clinical Nutrition @kevin_phd Joe Rogan Is there a type of study design that does not assume causality from associations, Gary? 🤷‍♂️

Even RCTs require causal assumptions based on associations, so I'm not sure what unique study property you might be referring to.