James Riley Mike Cannon-Brookes 👨🏼‍💻🧢🇦🇺 Google isn’t appropriating content creators’ product, they just help people find it. Issue is they compete for same ad $. By all means tax multinational media cos to fund journalism - tax is redistribution not theft - but forcing direct payment as if it’s commercial deal is odd.

Caitlin Fitzsimmons 🧜‍♀️ Mike Cannon-Brookes 👨🏼‍💻🧢🇦🇺 Google is absolutely appropriating content created by others, but agree a solution is not straight (and happy to agree to disagree on appropriation)

James Riley Mike Cannon-Brookes 👨🏼‍💻🧢🇦🇺 Every publisher I’ve worked for puts a huge effort into SEO. If we truly believed it was appropriation we wouldn’t do that.

Caitlin Fitzsimmons 🧜‍♀️ Mike Cannon-Brookes 👨🏼‍💻🧢🇦🇺 And yet the publishers you have worked for argue that google appropriates their content. SEO effort says more about the monopoly power of the search platform than whether the content is appropriated ✌️

James Riley Mike Cannon-Brookes 👨🏼‍💻🧢🇦🇺 From Google’s perspective, its content is all search results it serves up and a news article is not higher up the hierarchy than a pub menu. Is it appropriating the pub’s content? I don’t think we’d be having the conversation if Google didn’t monetise through ads. I don’t get it.

Caitlin Fitzsimmons 🧜‍♀️ Mike Cannon-Brookes 👨🏼‍💻🧢🇦🇺 Yes, google is also appropriating the pub's content. And if the publican employed a team of people to update the online menu three times a day they would probably object louder too, if Google were making $$ from their work. Also, journalism is more important than pub menus.

James Riley Mike Cannon-Brookes 👨🏼‍💻🧢🇦🇺 The pub wants the menu to be found, so much so that they’re also likely to be a Google customer. Anyway we obviously don’t agree on this so let’s drop it.

Caitlin Fitzsimmons 🧜‍♀️ James Riley But in this case... the pub can choose to remove its menu (make it non searchable) if they want.

Instead of removing it, today these pubs actively mail their menu to Google & ask them to publish it! Some even pay _Google_ for the traffic it drives... those are their ads!

Mike Cannon-Brookes 👨🏼‍💻🧢🇦🇺 Caitlin Fitzsimmons 🧜‍♀️ I'm not arguing against the internet, but the negative impacts of monopoly power. And simply making the point that Google does appropriate news content. I agree that the proposed Treasury/ACCC regime is weird, but applaud its intent (re journalism). Don't think it will work.

James Riley Mike Cannon-Brookes 👨🏼‍💻🧢🇦🇺 Caitlin Fitzsimmons 🧜‍♀️ How - specifically - does Google appropriate news content?

Here's a screenshot of Google News, and for a search. It displays headlines and then passes the reader to the publication if they click.

Is this appropriation in your view or is there something else I'm missing?

Nick Lothian Mike Cannon-Brookes 👨🏼‍💻🧢🇦🇺 Caitlin Fitzsimmons 🧜‍♀️ Yes the Google News product is an appropriation of the work of others as per your screenshots. But no I don't think you're missing anything, you just have a different view.